Hilarious
Published by Mike Stark July 26th, 2006 in UncategorizedSo the other day, I linked to http://marklevinfan.com/ because they’ve got a picture gallery up for the Freedom Concert. About 140 photo’s last I heard.
They were also writing about my work (with contempt, of course), so I thought I’d mosey on over there from time to time. Ya never know what a wingnut will say or when they’ll say it…
So… They blocked me. I go to the url and get an “You are not authorized to view this page” screen. I can access the site just fine though, through anonymizer.com.
Is everyone on the right a gutless coward unwilling to subject their ideas to scrutiny? Byron York, you’ll remember, wouldn’t talk to me about abortion. Bill O’Reilly won’t take calls from me anymore. Same with Rush Limbaugh - his screener has totally shut me out. Hannity? I’m not sure about. I’ll try again soon. But he threw me out of the Freedom Concert - personally - because he didn’t want me talking to his cretinous acolytes. There is a great fear on the right that betrays an all consuming moral cowardice.
The saddest part? These people run the country. Ugh.
Remember, George Bush’s appearances happen before canned audiences. Dick Cheney, ditto. Even Joe Lieberman won’t talk to regular folks.
60 Responses to “Hilarious”
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Mike, good work. They are afraid of free speech. But Daily Kos practices the same kind of shut-out. Just anger five troll-hunters and you’re gone. I think the left practices this intolerance as well as the right. keep on.
Heh. I went through all 150-some Freedom Concert photos on that site and saw exactly one African-American. Granted, he was in a whole bunch of pictures, so maybe that’s why your right-wing commenters thought there were lots of black folk at the shindig.
I mean, since them “coloreds” all look alike to the average Hannity listener, how could anyone be expected to tell that it’s the same guy?!
And Christian? There’s a difference between trolling and disagreeing. Trolling is intended to derail actual conversations and shunt them into flame-war territory. Trolling is a way of stifling discourse through excessive disruptiveness. At a high-volume site like Kos or DU, moderation is required to keep every discussion from degenerating into worthless name-calling and shouting matches.
Not to say that the policies at Kos are good or correct, (I seldom if ever frequent Kos, so I can’t say), but most of the high-volume RW sites don’t even allow comments at all. Better to have a chance to speak, even if you DO have to be on good behavior…..
christain: dailykos does not practice the “same kind of shut out” - at least not as far as I know.
They do cancel your acount - but anyone - even the banned - can go to the site to read what is written. These guys put yellow tape around their whole site in an effort to keep me from even reading what they write.
that’s pathetic.
I checked out the site - what a load of crap. I like how one poster says he had posted over here and was “awaiting moderation”. lmao…there is no delay here. These guys are so used to having censorship to protect their little havens from new thoughts or ideas, it doesn’t even occur to them that some of us aren’t afraid to hear someone with a different viewpoint. It’s clearly a function of having TRUTH and OPEN MINDS on our side. (Either that, or his “internet” got clogged up in the “tubes”, since it’s not a “dumptruck” bwahahahah
Truly pathetic. The ones who did come over here to “argue” all disappeared when “facts” being thrown in their faces were so contradictory to the lies they had blindly accepted from their hateful heros. It was like shooting fish in a barrel, seriously.
well, cosmo, gonna be fair here… the first time you post, you do have to wait for me to approve. It’s a anti-spam technique. Once I’ve approved you, however, there is no longer any delay. And for the most part, I approve within hours, if not minutes or seconds…
I actually went to that site and tried to post a comment on their little Arlen Specter haterade sipping fest. Although I am sure they won’t let it through…even with no expletives…That(screening comments) seems to be par for the course with the rightwing blogs…
Keep up the good work.
Sean
PS: Let me know if you see any of my flames on that site “Trollboy”.
Peace
doh! my bad
I get an ‘awaiting moderation’ message every time I post.
Thank you Mike for being such a champion of free speech.
morkov: you are one of a very few that get that message… mostly because you are a sneaky and dishonest dickhead.
Mike, keep up the good work. I too posted something civil, but critical in the “Levinfan” site and was quickly blocked. These people are Facists. I keep hearing the term “Islamic Facism” repeated by the wingers. To me this indicates a total lack of understanding of the subject matter considering that Islam and Facism are 2 totally opposed beliefs. it is like calling someone a Socialist Capitalist. I wish you could bring that up next time you get through to one of those hosts.
Thanks again
Hey Mike! When’s the video gonna be up?
Checked out the forum. They have a Rush Limbaugh, Sean Hannity sub-forum, along with one called “Shillary”. I was gonna register and post there but its too mind numbingly sophomoric to even bother with.
*yawn*……..
Levin and his boyfriends Shammity are a disgrace, but their followers are a bit pathetic. Look at how they fawn over Tom Delay, and how they eat up mAnn Coultergeist’s disease ridden diatribes. This is what happens when Conservatives try to choke the life out of public education- Stupid Americans who you can lead by the nose.
I expect as much from Mark Levin. What a ridiculous douche bag. No offense meant to regular douche bags. We appreciate your hard work.
Levin seems to like pimping 9/11. Par for the course I guess. Too bad that inspired nationalism is fading. I guess you can’t hide what you are forever,even a goose-stepping moron.
If Levin(and the “ordained by god” suction devices attached to his anus) are so bloody happy ahbout things in the middle east,perhaps they should play “johnny get yer gun” and go over and kick arse.
Bunch of pathetic pussies. Real Conservatives should find all these assholes and thouroughly kick them in the nuts. Especially the chicks. They have bigger balls than their men do.
Oh btw, I went to the site to look at the photos and guess who I saw? On shot 29E is a photo of disgraced congress man Tom Delay!
No politicizing there, he’s just a fan of good singin’!
I agree with Blue Patriot. It seems as though the more offensive and/or corrupt the wingnut, the more diehard the support is from “conservative” followers.
I just saw the pics. It’s sad when cousins marry!
It is so telling that not one of the wingnuts who ventured over here could provide a single fact to back their claims. When confronted by actual truth, with cites, one idiot wingnut said, “I don’t need google. Everyone knows statistics can be manipulated…[then the idiot went on to say something about knowing first hand how many unwed mothers there were during Clinton’s presidency…lmao]
Sounds like fodder for the Colbert Report
It looks like it was a great day for the self-concerned. Apparently they hid a black guy in the crowd and I’m guessing the “we love wars we don’t have to fight in” crowd had lot’s of fun playing “Where’s Waldo?”
I think the black guy is the most popular person in the photo sets. Maybe they passed him around the concert venue like a beach ball.
Anyway, I’m glad to see the Republican party reaching out to minorities. One black guy is a good start for them. But I wonder what might happen to him if he’s found having umm… relations with the white women.
It is great that you poke fun at people that are helping raise money for a good cause. I understand if you do not agree with Hannity and Coulter but how can you poke fun at people that are there to raise money for the fallen soilders’ families and to enjoy a good concert put on by caring people!!!!
Gosh, I thought that the ‘Freedom Concert’ was for a college education for the children of the guys who died in Iraq. I thought anyone could go for about $50 and that veterans and guys serving now were encouraged to go. Did they actually stand at the gate and stop African-Americans from going in?
The Dads died in Afghanistan and Iraq. I wonder if the US military will be going to Israel too. Condi Rice is an African-American, so if she arranges for our guys to go to Israel, it will be OK.
They are having another Concert next week in San Diego, California. Do you think they are collecting money fraudulently for Bush and the Republicans?
I bet you could count the number of black people at a Dixie Chicks concert on one hand.
I do not here you attacking them or their fans. Because you agree with their position.
Beat us on the issue leave the petty personal attack out of it.
“Beat us on the issue leave the petty personal attack out of it.”
What issue? That liberals are all “traitors”? Or that liberals have sold out America?
How can anyone debate a broad,idiotic,unfounded statement like that? And where’s Levin(or any of these other people’s) proofs of this great liberal conspiracy to undermine our country? Legislation? Hell,if that’s the case Levin should hate Bushco’s guts. But maybe I should put a big fat R on my head and listne to the likes of Levin. I’s be a reel winnar den,won’I?
Please. Don’t martyr yourself. We’re running short of dogwoods already with all the Jesus poses that this administration goes through. I don’t think anyone believes(or at least I hope not) that there aren’t sincere,good Conservatives. The problem is,those good conservatives aren’t on the are pouring your favorite drink. And let’s be honest for a moment,the only reason that anyone believes that crap is BECAUSE THEY WANT TO. Other Conservatives,the ones who don’t have their heads up their asses,can’t believe what comes out of those douchebag’s mouths.
If you want to carry water for them,I say more power to you. I just hope you don’t get too dissapointed when they go down like a flaming yard dart.
Smilie, are you being sarcastic? It’s hard to tell on the internets.
Did they stand at the gate and stop black veterans and guys in the military from going in. I thought the concert was for them, and the money was for the education of the children of the guys who died in Iraq, white, black and Hispanic.
Now, the Bush administration has an African-American woman as the Secretary of State. Condi Rice is in rome about the war in the Middle East right now. Since Ms. Rice is black it will be OK if she decides that the US military should go and fight for Israel.
Keep fighting the good fight.
Wasn’t Sean the one who went on national TV with Rick “I’m about to be voted out of office” Santorium yelling that there were WMD. Only to be proved wrong before he even got off the air? Maybe Sean’s the loser. (Oh, and didn’t run and hide the next several days? He was absent from his TV for 3 - 4 days about looking like more of a fool than usual.)
That’s right now I remember. My famiky had to fax our birth certificates along with photos and DNA to prove we were white before we could even order tickets. Then at the gate we were stopped because my husband is very dark skinned of Meditaranean descent and might have been an Arab.
Wait that never happened just part of your lib fantasy of how things go down on the right.
Charles funny you should mention collecting money fraudulently that never happened but if it did I guess it would be bad unlike say stealing money from Boys and Girls clubs in Harlem.
Nothing but anger, hatred and violence being spewed here by all you “tolerant” people.
Have a nice day all.
Can we get off the racial issue? I’m sure there were some “people of color” who went to the concert to enjoy the music and the park, and to support the cause ( raising money to help send to college , children who lost a parent in war). Even though they aren’t in the pictures, I’ll accept the word of the people that were there. I do find it strange though, that the only two black americans that have been specifically mentioned, are a member of Project 21, and a member of CORE. I think this fits right in with the politicization of the event (along with Coulter and Delay). Since that is what Sean specifically accused Mike of doing, I think we should focus on this hypocrisy.
Nicely said Ezsuds81 but can you please explain where the hypocrisy lies. I had the pleasure of meeting the man from Project 21 and although I am automatically labeled a racist by people on the left because of my conservative beliefs, the man is welcome in my home anytime. As a matter of fact, and man or woman is welcome into my home as long as you are an upstanding human being and show me the same respect that I will show you.
Pete:
I won’t even make fun of you this post. For at least this post, I’m serious.
My question for you is this: Do you really believe that conservatives - mostly living in red states like Mississippi, Alabamba, Texas, Arkansas, Kentucky, South Carolina, Georgia, etc… Do you really believe that Republicans aren’t the party of rascists? I’m not saying that all republicans are rascists - and I’m certainly not calling you a rascist - but I think it’s apparent from the electoral map that most rascists are republicans…
The case can be further made that Democrats are not the party of rascists because there is not a single black republican member of the House or Senator.
Please explain these dynamics.
Mike
First off why do feel the need to “make fun” of someone when they are trying to have an educated debate? That truly makes you look like a small minded individual.
I for one do not look at things in black and white. I don’t live in a hyphenated world either. Are there white racists? Yes. Are they all Republicans? I wouldn’t think so. That would be pretty far fetched. Are there black racists? Absolutely. Are they all Democrats? Again, I wouldn’t think so. You single out all Southern states for racists. They are everywhere. North, South, East, West, Rad and Blue states. I guess I for one am considered a racists because I don’t believe in affirmative action and I don’t want people on welfare, because that money comes out of my pocket. What I do want is for everyone to be working and making an HONEST living. Everyone is given the opportunity to succeed in this country, It is up to the individual to grasp that opportunity. What gets me though is the Democrats are real quick to label a Republican a racist, yet the close their mouths when asked if Charles Barron is a racist. You all like to make fun of those who listen to country music, but those country artists are some of the most tolerant people around and when one writes a song that says.
When the last thing we notice is the color of skin
And the first thing we look for is the beauty within
When the skies and the oceans are clean again
Then we shall be free
I think then we should all open our eyes and minds and shut our mouths. Using the racist/racism argument is getting very stale in my world. Its like a cheap whore. Used over and over and nothing gained from it.
Pete, the hypocrisy is that Sean accused Mike of planning to use the event for political purposes. Mike has documented what Sean said about that, and he also has documented what Sean said about Liberals, to the crowd AT THE SHOW.(POT meet KETTLE) Combine that with adding people specifically linked to republican/conservative politics (Delay, Coulter Innis, Kevin Martin). I think Sean’s charge that Mike would be “politicizing the event” is clearly hypocritical.
Regarding CORE, their members always seem to support the republican side of issues when I have seen them on TV.
Regarding Project21, it’s website: http://www.nationalcenter.org/P21Index.html
describes it as “The National Leadership Network of Black Conservatives.
Pete, I am NOT labeling you a racist. Just judging from the pictures of the concert, everyone seemed to enjoy being around Kevin Martin. I’m sure he’s a great person, although our politics differ.
Ezsuds81
I cant speak for everyone around Kevin, but I did go up to him and shake his hand because he is black. I didn’t see the color of his skin. And ok Project 21 is for Republicans as the NAACP is for Democrats. Now all the other people at the show are Republicans. I really didn’t expect Al Gore and Howard Dean to be there. Mike’s last part of his post is true. There are no Republican black members of the House or Senate. Hopefully in the very near future there will be. I wonder why that is? Could it be because the Democrats are the party of entitlement and there are those out there that dont want to lose their entitlements? Bill Cosby gets shunned by the black politicians because the man speaks the truth. Its time for people to follow Cosby’s political beliefs and run away from Al Sharptons.
Pete,
Why didn’t you expect Al Gore or Howard Dean to be there unless this event was political in nature? Are you saying that Gore and Dean do not support the efforts of the troops and do not honor the loss and sacrifice these families make in defense of our country?
That one line in your post says so much about conservative talk radio, and, as a tangent, how those who listen to it think. Probably, you beleive that big stinking load dumped by Hannity and all his guests at the Freedom Concert that liberals want America to lose and that we don’t support the troops and that we are all traitors and we should all be killed or deported.
If Sean really wanted to have AMERICANS, not just conservatives, support this cause, he would have put the politics aside and invited Dean and Gore and Hillary and Murtha and Kerry, becuase they all love America just as much as Hannity claims to, and they all appreciate the sacrifices made. But Hannity did not, becuase he is a shill and a hypocrite.
But judging from the rest of your post and its tired tripe and pat lines (party of entitlement), this is all stuff you easily swallow.
Pity.
Pete, way to speak up.
Mike as usual makes a bunch of assumptions but offers no evidence or facts for his assertion that ‘most racists are republicans.”
Here’s a question for Mike:
Which president has appointed two black Secretaries of State? (Hint, not Bill Clinton, who some have strangely called the first black president).
douggie g
Please take a deep breath and calm down. Everyone you mentioned would have never shown up even if invited. Hell, Hillary and Dean dont even have the guts to go on Hannitys show. People of all beliefs had every right to go to the show, all you had to do is buy a ticket and not make an ass of yourself. And yes the Democrat party is the party of entitlement. When do you think most of the tax money goes? Social entitlement causes.
FYI - It would appear the link, “http://marklevinfan.com/ ” is being re-directed to your site if reffered from your site. When clicked it just reloads the page, but putting the URL in another window’s address bar takes you to the Levin site.
As probably the only Black man on this conversation, I’m sure that Markovits isn’t suggesting that Bush is racially friendly by appointing Colin Powell and Condi Rice. Please.
No matter how you slice Dems and R’s there are racists all around. The problem is that the Republican party has developed policies to retard any progress that Blacks, Hispanics and all other minorities in this country. That’s the problem.
Affirmation action is a program that was clearly helping Blacks get educations and better jobs. The republicans yelled reverse discrimmination. So? The question is does affirmative action help the society as a whole. The answer is clearly yes. Multiple studies have shown that Blacks who get into selective schools graduate at a higher rate then their White counterparts. How does society benefit? If you follow graduates from selective schools, you will find that a higher percentage of Blacks attend graduate schools than Whites, A higher percentage give to charities and a higher percentage volunteer in their communities than do their White counterparts. That’s how the system is suppose to work.
Finally, the obvious. If Republicans love minorities then why aren’t they doing anything about wages. More money would surely help those at the bottom of the economic ladder like Blacks, Hispanics and Single Mothers. Nope the argument that raising the minimum wage hurts businesses has been proven false. So, what’s your next argument? Okay, next. Katrina. If Katrina wasn’t about race and poverty I don’t know what it was about. What about LIHEAP? this is a program that allows low income folks to get government assistance to heat during the winter. Bush has tried to cut this program 5 years in a row. Do I need to go on? Bush’s tax cut disproportionately hurt Blacks, Sngle mothers, Hispanics and other low income groups. The president’s Social Security plan was going to kill low income people.
Yes, there are racists everywhere. Dem’s and R’s. Only the R’s have developed a policy that is designed not to help minorities. (Did I mention cutting the SBA loans? Loans that have been used in the past to help small Black businesses.) The R’s have taken that policy and wrapped it in the flag and the constitution. Unfortunately, some good Americans have bought into their anti-poor, anti-minority, anti-working family policies.
Why was Clinton loved by the Black community? More Blacks graduated from High school and went on to college during Clinton. Blacks had the highest jump in income during Clinton. Most Blacks graduated from college during Clinton. The list of achievements in Black community is long but really the bottom-line. He cared. He went into the Black community. He went into the Black Community and broke bread with us. He met with Black leaders, not just around election time. (Bush met with the Black Congressional Caucus once in his first 4 years in office.)
I’m done. If you want specific data which supports my claims please let me know.
Where’s the Outrage?
Pete, you gotta be kidding? At one time I’d have agreed with you, the Dems spending habits made me nuts. But I’ve never imagined any administration spending money like the jokers we have now. They remind me of how irresponsible I acted when I received my first credit card in college. Unfortunately, I wasn’t able to stick the next generation with my tab.
Pete,
Thank you for being concerned about my well-being.
Why do you think they would not show up if invited? My guess is, that like being invited onto Hannity’s show, they would have faced the usual shoutdown that Mike faced when he called the day after the Freedom Concert.
You say that people of any political belief could go. Well, yes they could, as long as they were willing to be singled out and ridiculed without the chance to defend themselves. Would you want any part of that? Mike didn’t make an ass of himself and he was booted, so I dont think your assessment is true. That is the political nature Hannity placed on this event, which is a crying shame considering the importance of the cause. Maybe he could hold it at a venue twice the size it is at now if he came out and said “You know, this is about the families and not about politics or ideology.” Maybe co-host it with Al Franken, who actually does support the troops by doing USO shows.
But that would again be too much to expect from Sen.
Sean is not interested in discourse, he’s interested in tripe to boost ratings. He doesn’t care about the well-being of this country. If he did, he would not deal in the divisive crap he spews every day. And I bet Hillary and Dean would meet with Hannity on an even playing field, but Sean would not want that for fear of being exposed for the snake-oil salesman he is.
And actually, most tax money goes to defense. Social services is about half of what we spend on defense. We’re interested in a level playing field, not entitlements.
ecthompson, I would like to see these policies that retard any progress for minorities. (Funny thing is, I hate that word minorities.) Afirmative action is just plain morally wrong. You are putting one race ahead of another. I suggest you read some of Thomas Sowell columns. It just might help you understand how racists afirmative action is.
Independent Erik, I hate the way this administration is spending money.
douggie, how much more even of a playing field do you want? You have Colmes on the other side. Can someone please tell me how he gets his eyebrow to do that. Its kind of like Elvis’ lip.
As far as Republican being racists. I dont recall any Rebpublican that is in the Senate right now being a member of the KKK. And I dont recall any Republican Govenor blocking the doors of college so a black person couldnt get in.
Pete,
Ever really look at the affirmitaive action laws? I mean, actually read them? Nowhere in the federal laws does it say that an African-American HAS to be hired because he is black. But it can be considered a factor, just like being white was considered a major factor for centuries in America. That’s what tehe Supreme Court cases with the University of Michigan are all about. Do you really think 40 years of Affirmitive Action laws can level the playing field after 350 years of slavery, Jim Crow and separate but equal?
Your question has a certain Orwellian “Animal Farm” feel to it. Do you think some fields are more level than others? I want the starting line for everyone to be the same and the finish line determined by each one’s dreams, talents and determination. I want some day that we won’t have to think about color, but the sad fact is that won’t happen in our lifetimes. Still, we can do everything possible to try and see it in our lifetimes, and Affirmitive Action is a part of that.
As for Colmes’ eyebrows, that’s just that much more talent he has compared to Hannity. If only he could get it to say “Thank you very much. Where’s my fried peanut butter and banana sandwich?”
As for racists in the party, do I have to play the David Duke card? At least Byrd renounced his ties to the clan. Can Duke say the same thing? And if you think George Wallace would fit nicely into today’s Democratic Party, you have no understanding of history. Why do you think we said good riddance to him? And, as I remember, he too came out and said publicly he was wrong. Don’t see any GOP’ers doing that.
dougiie
I dont give a rats fat ass what the affirmative actions laws say. IT’S WRONG. What part of wrong dont you get? No one, I repeat, no one should be put in front of another because of race. My God, if I were a minority, (again, I hate that word) I would not want to be put at the front of the line because my skin color is a shade darker. If I were to accept that, then I would have to accept the fact that the people I just cut in front of are better than me. I would have to accept my skin color decrees me handicapped.
You are being a hypocrite. You want the starting line to be the same, yet with affirmative action it isn’t. A minority can get 10 to 15 extra points on a civil service exam just because he was able to spell his name and check the “African American” or “Hispanic” box.
I really didn’t think someone would be able to define talent by the way an eyebrow positions itself, but I guess you have.
Would you like me to say David Duke was/is a racist? OK HE WAS A MISERABLE PIECE OF HUMAN EXCREMENT RACIST PIG. He is no longer a factor in todays politics. He doesnt have a voice or a vote. Can you say the same for Robert KKK Byrd?
Pete, now you need to grab the paper bag and take some deep breaths.
So you say it’s wrong even though you haven’t read it. Thaaaaaat’s sweet. I like your truthiness.
Since you want to talk intent rather than letter of the law, let’s go down that road. I go back to my original statement of “Do you think 40 years of affirmitive action laws negate 350 years of institutionalized racism?” If you do, then this conversation ends right here, because that is the starting point of truely leveling the playing field.
I agree with you. I wish that we didn’t have to consider color in any aspect of life. I also wish Brett Favre wouldn’t throw so many damn interceptions, but I don’t think I’m going to get either anytime soon. The sad fact of American economic history, and really of all history, is that minorities (ethnic, religious, etc.) have been taken advantage of and discriminated against solely based upon whatever made them a minority. In America’s case that has been predominantly, but not exclusively, color. Odds are that if blacks had received more opportunities and less whippings pre Civil War, we would likely have a vastly different outlook on race.
I think if you were a minority, you would not take the view you profess you would. I would guess your outlook would be something like “Damn. That white guy got that job ahead of me because he knew the white boss’ son at the frat. My resume is just as good as his. He’s not better than me.”
(Aside: That was for dramatic effect, but I’d like to think that you get my jist that the black didn’t get the job becuase he was discriminated against.)
So we have the seesaw that is race relations. Whites have had the upper seat for centuries, but over the past 50-60 years our culture has made advancements to even the seesaw out. And how do you level out a seesaw? Well one side that was up has to go down, and the side that was down has to go up. Now you and I, as whites, we lose some of the inherent advantages we have (and please don’t deny that we had them prior to the civil rights movement, that would be beneath this conversation) so that blacks get the chance to erase the sterotype and biases built up over 350 years.
And you know what, that’s a slight I am willing to take for the betterment of society. If I lose out on a job or two because someone else who happens to be black got a little extra nudge thanks to affirmative action, well, odds are I will find another job. I’m not going to get shut out of everything, no matter what conservatives want the public to think. There will be no great unemployment lines of whites thanks to affirmative action. What there will be is a… GASP…level playing field. Maybe not now, but I’d like to think maybe when my kids are grown.
Pete,
As for the other two notes:
1. The Colmes comment was a joke, obviously over your head.
2. As for Byrd, I’m glad he’s still a factor in the fight for equality and justice. Show me the last time he made a racist comment. If you want to talk checkered pasts, then Newt Gingrich should never again comment on marriage, Rush Limbaugh should never comment on stiff penalties for drug use, Bill Bennett should never comment on morality, and neither Oliver North nor G. Gordon Liddy should comment on defending the Constitution. You can take down that straw man now.
I have heard Thomas Sowell’s writings. He is wrong. The question of affirmative action is a good one. How do you correct 200 years of wrongs? How do you do that? Take your time. I would like to hear something reasonable that could be tried.
Douggie lengthy discussion is 100% correct.
I would add that there are a few Blacks that hate the fact that they are Black. Clarence Thomas is one them. He hates affirmative action but all the while he benefited from it. He was not a great student in high school or college he was okay. He would have never have gotten in to Amherst without affirmative action. Peroid. In the Michigan case he wrote a lengthy treatise on self hate. If you haven’t read it, I invite you to. He condemns Blacks for using Affirmative Action as a crutch when he in fact used it as it was supposed to be used, as a hand and not a handout.
I have enjoyed this discussion. If Pete would like some real stats, he can e-mail me.
Where’s the Outrage?
Even more pressing an issue re: affirmative action’s uses today,when’s the last time anyone looked at African Americans as top wage earners? Access to jobs in higher profile areas? Just having a token minority complement seems to me to be a compounding of the problem,not fixing the issue of inequality.
I’ve heard(mostly from right sources,but also from a very few lefties) that this lack is because of a lack of drive to succeed on the part of black Americans. I call BS there.
More realistically from my POV,what with black americans having better access to higher education,that it simply goes back to the “good ol boys” club. A slick,sly,underhand form of discrimination. You ain’t “in” unless you “in”.
Perhaps some of affirmative action’s goals have been met. Some could argueably be said to be “past their time”. But on the whole I think that there is a pretty obvious need for it today in several sections of our society.
At least from one Southern man’s POV there is.
douggie
Why wont you admit that Robert KKK Byrd is a racists? Once a Republican is labeled something, its with him for life as you pointed out with Newt, Rush and Ollie. Once a racist, always a racist.
I will admit that at one time Byrd was a racist, but since he renmounced his association to the Klan, he has done much to prove that those days are behind him. Ask the people in West Virginia, who overwhelmingly support him.
Can’t really say the same for Newt, Rush, Bill and Ollie. Those leopards have not changed their spots. The reason that those labels tend to stay with Republicans is that they rarely do anything to change those perceptions.
I don’t buy the once a (fill in the blank), always a (fill in the blank). Maybe tyhat’s the optimist in me, but Byrd has proved my theory. Sorry to say, the others have proved yours.
Douggie
Funny things is, you seem to think only democrats can repent. OK so Newt cheated on his wife. That should be no big deal to you libs. Your former President did the same. Rush had a problem with pills and you want to crucify him, yet you want to help street druggies. Ollie has done more good for this country than you ever will. And Bill likes to gamble with his own hard earned money. I guess there are no libs in Vegas. You dont believe in the once a _______ always a _______, yet you dont think Republicans can repent. Ah the liberal mind. Makes my eyes bleed.
I dont need to read about affirmative action to know its wrong just like I dont need to read Mein Kampf to know that it was wrong. And before you get yourself into a tizzy, no I am not equating the two.
Keep your affirmative action, but those who believe in it are racists. You are saying to the minorities that you are beneath me and therefor need extra help. I for one am not saying that. I am saying we are all equal, (Sounds like something Dr. King would say) you dont need special needs. Also dont get all huffy if someone says whites and Asians are superior. Your affirmative action is saying it also.
Damn it feels great not to be a liberal racist!!!
And no your Colmes comment wasnt over my head. I just didnt think libs had a sense of humor. (A joke) Now that the two of us are breathing heavy together, do you think we should get a room? (Another joke)
Errington Thompson
What does what happened 200 years ago have to do with affirmative action now. I am sure there are not any 218 year old people attending college. Because America did something as evil as slavery 200 years ago, people of today are to benefit from it? Give me a break. Are we to give the Japanese special privileges because Roosevelt imprisoned them? Are the Germans doling out affirmative actions to the Jews in Germany? You have to get out of the past in order to move forward.
And why exactly do blacks hate being black?
Pete, I’d buy you a beer anytime. Domestic, too (I’m a Miller guy). These are always good discussions to have. They may get heated, but as long as you don’t bring my family into it, we’ll be fine.
And I do think conservatives can repent and change, but I just haven’t seen many examples of it. For the most part they wear their dishonor as an honor.
I will take offense to Ollie doing more for this contry than I have. He usurpted the Constition and the rule of law in the Iran-Contra affair and doesn’t regret it one bit. That is about as anti-American as you can get. I have never done that.
And I don’t crucify Rush for getting addidicted to pain pills, but I sure will call him out when he calls for stiff penalties for crack users while ignoring white-collar cocaine use and its lighter sentences.
And Bill Bennett can do anything he wants with his money, but he sholdn’t be a hypocryte and tells others how to lead a moral life when he won’t lead by example.
As for Newt, the man had affairs and then had the audacity to call out the president? He is the poster boy for hypocracy.
You are actually the second person to call me a racist for defending affirmative action, but you need to understand the definition of racism. Racism is the belief that one race is superior to another, and I don’t know of a single liberal friend of mine who thinks blacks are superior to whites. But they sure do think that they are equal, something that hasn’t been embraced for a lot of America’s history. Affirmitive action simply acknowledges that in the past three centuries whites have received special privleges and tries to rectify that in the present. That’s how what happened 200 years ago and up until the recent past affects today. It’s not just slavery. It’s Jim Crow, it’s separate but equal. That’s why the interrment of Japanese isn’t even remotely the same. That was a one-time sorry incident.
Like I said in a previous post, if blacks had received more opportunities and fewer whippings and lynchings, we probably would not have needed affirmative action. A little revisionist I know, but hey, I’m a dreamer.
douggie
I dont resort to name calling or besmirching someone’s family. Nothing is gained from it and it makes one look like an ass. I accept the beer, I’ll buy the shots. Please tell me when and how Rush has ignored white-collar cocaine use. I would also like to know what Ollie was convicted of. Do you really think the whippings and lynchings of 200 years ago has an effect on people today? My father has tanned my ass as a child and I didnt go through life needing special treatment.
Douggie
I find it interesting that you left out this part of the definition of racism. “The belief that race accounts for differences in human character or ability.” Key word being ability.
Rush’s is a sin of omission. He has always railed on drug use and promoted the “War on Drugs” without noting that the penalties inherently favor those drug users who are weathier.
Ollie was actually convited of obstruction and purgury, trhough it was later overturned on a technicality, and he has never denied using the funds from the sale of weapons to Iran (then, as now, an enemy to freedom) to help the contras in Central America, even though there was a law against that.
As for the lynchings and whipping, I’ll answer the question with a question. Do you think that from the end of the Civil war to about 1960 there was a fundamental shift in how America generally viewed and treated blacks? The whippings were not analogous to reprimanding a child, that’s apples and oranges. If you answer yes to that question, then I can see why you think affirmative action is wrong, but I’d also say that you have no understanding of race history in America.
The fact is the playing field titled heavily in favor of whites for 250 years thanks to institutionalized discrimination, and affirmitive action tries to level that out
Pete,
My omission of that part of the definition of racism was a sin of omission, but I don’t see how that bolsters your beliefs. Let’s take a look at that…
“The belief that race accounts for differences in human character or ability.”
In no way, under the wording or intent of the laws of affirmative action, is it inherently saying that blacks are better in character or ability. I’d be interested to see evidence where it does. That certainly wasn’t brought up in the Michigan law school cases.
As I have said before, its purpose is to overcome institutional racism that did exist for centuries, where blacks were denied many things simply because whites thought they were better than blacks in character and ability and thought that they were superior to blacks. If anything, AA laws confirm the belief that no race is superior in character or ability, but individuals may be, so to discriminate solely upon the color of one’s skin is wrong. So in order to tip the seesaw, we need to put some weight on the other side. Is it perfect? Hell no. But it beats what had been going on.
So I don’t see, based on history, how leaving that out bolsters your case.
Admire your determination. Keep up the very good work.
Make ‘em sweat.