I dunno why they’re so upset
Published by Mike Stark June 25th, 2007 in UncategorizedFor the last year, right wing radio, when they weren’t defending Tom Delay and Mark Foley, spent much of their time decrying illegal immigration. To hear them tell it, Al Qaeda has been invading us via Mexico (which is really laughable because Canada has a much larger and more radical Muslim population than Mexico does, and their border is every bit as porous. but we never hear calls for a 3500 mile northern border fence… funny, that…)
Anyway, you really need to read the first two parts of the incredibly disquieting series profiling Dick Cheney.
An aside: can Dick, please, please, please, be a disqualifying first name for any future executive office applicants?
Dammit, I didn’t want to go there…
Uhm, White House applicants?
The series, so far, really does lay out the case that Cheney believes he’s untouchable. I’m fairly certain he’s made the calculation that after the impeachment of Clinton, he can get away with just about anything because the Democrats aren’t about to take us down that “very, very damaging path” again. My money’s on him - every day that passes without an impeachment inquiry further proves the point…
So he’s taking advantage of this moment in history to consolidate maximum power in the office of the President. From authorizing torture, to creating a novel detainee status that provides cover for the circumvention of the Geneva Conventions, to refusing oversight, to reserving the prerogative to decide for himself which laws of the land apply to him…
Cheney’s clearly established himself as a man above the law.
So… Who better to solve the immigration problem? As I said to Lars, he can go down to the border, shoot a few Mex’cans in the face (and waterboard them afterward) and, in general, announce that he was gonna be in charge of dealing with the filthy fucking immigrant problem… With Dick snarling across the Southern border, I’m quite sure the immigration problem would solve itself pretty quickly…
Lars didn’t want to talk too much about that, so the conversation morphed to whether or not torture is OK. Sometimes, speaking slowly doesn’t help. Lars, and I suspect the vast majority of his mouth-breathing listeners, is either playing obtuse or he’s dumb as a developmentally disabled dung beetle.
The truth is that torture is always counter-productive.
He threw up the ticking time-bomb scenario (this one came with a mushroom cloud at no extra charge!) Of course, it doesn’t matter how immediate the threat is… it doesn’t matter what brand of torture you choose… the plain and simple fact is that if a craven and self-centered lying scumbag like John McCain can withstand torture, a terrorist willing to wear a suicide belt or plant a nuke is going to be equally able to gut it out. All it takes is a commitment to your cause; in McCain, he (at that time) did it (presumably) to preserve his honor, his family’s honor, his father’s pride and his nation’s gratitude. To think that a religious fanatic has any less strength is just stooopid. I mean, seriously… How many people have you heard tell you that they draw inspiration and strength from their God?
But that’s not really the point either. Suppose pulling fingernails could get your average terrorist to crack… What makes you think you’re gonna get the truth from them? Hell, if somebody invaded and destroyed my country, tried to impose an absolute failure of an economic regime and allowed the equivalent of a 9/11 to happen almost every day… well, they could torture me all they wanted; if I had info they needed, I’d simply lie. I’d send them on a wild goose chase… And there’s nothing anyone could do about it…
I didn’t get the chance to say it but the cost here is enormous. Every story of torture that gets out is repeated across the world. The world has seen an obstinate child of a man (our PResident) start a war unilaterally, crawl into a spider-hole of denial for 4 years, alienate his closest allies, tacitly condone torture and maintain an unlawful torture camp/prison that he refuses to close. It’s no wonder at all that by the end of the Bush administration we will see many thousands more terrorists than we had at its inception.
One last thing. After this call, I emailed Lars to tell him I’d be posting this and to thank him for making his endorsement of Abu Grahb perfectly clear. He emailed back saying that Abu Grahb wasn’t “official torture”; that it was a low-level crew run amok.
We do not know that to be true.
General Taguba, the flag officer assigned to the investigation, was expressly denied authority to investigate beyond the reserve MP unit at the bottom of the chain. He wasn’t allowed, for example, to ask what the military intelligence unit’s directions to the MP’s were. He wasn’t able to inquire as to what instructions General Miller - the General that Rumsfield transferred to Iraq from Guantameno - brought with him (though it did come out that the use of dogs was one of his fortes).
And, oh yeah, back to the beginning… He wasn’t able to ask if Cheney authorized torture.
Now, as a result of the Washington Post reporting, we know he did.
For him, that’s OK though… Impeachment is out of the question.
5 Responses to “I dunno why they’re so upset”
- 1 Pingback on Jun 28th, 2007 at 10:57 pm

I often hear proponents of torture use the doomsday scenerio as an example, and of course, Mike, you are correct in your assumption that all a terrorist has to do is send authrorities on a wild good chase. I also admire your take on McCain and how he was able to withstand torture while a POW. Why should we think terrorists (extremists all) have any less resolve?
Where I think we miss a point (as opponents of torture) is when we say we oppose the practice because it sets up our troops to also be tortured by enemies of our country. If we can do it, then they can to it as well. This isn’t the definitive argument against torture though. The real point is - if the government, OUR government, can use torture to extract information from foreign enemies, then they can also torture domestic enemies. Which domestic enemies? How about when a kidnapping has occurred and there is a suspect in custody? How about when we want to find out where a theif has hidden the jewels? How about when someone refuses a lie detector test or a drug test? How about when President Hillary Clinton listens in on phone calls between conservative “enemies”? Can we now agree that we don’t want to give our government the ability to decide in which situations torture is necessary? The real reason we don’t want the government to torture is because it will eventually be used on us! Don’t think it won’t.
When the host told you that we need torture to prevent terrorists from destroying our country, the answer should have been, “When we use torture to extract information from suspects, our country will have already been destroyed.”
Mike, mike mike….you foolish child…Don’t you know that the REAL world operates just like an episode of 24?
There are no innocents tortured for needless information….the “Good Guys” ALWAYS happen to locate the ONE collaborator whom everyone is POSITIVE without a single shred of doubt has ALL the information about EXACTLY where the hidden bomb is that is going to explode in precisely fifty-eight minutes.
You find him, and then you put a hood over his head, and skirt him off to a deserted warehouse with alot of bad lighting, dripy water, and jangly chains hanging from the ceiling.
Then Jack Bauer shows up to work the poor fukker over with a pair of pliers and a blowtorch until he confesses to everything including the Lindburgh Kidnapping, helping Gary Condit murder Chandra Levy, and being present at the Xlinton coke deal that went sour and resulted in Vince Foster being whacked by Hillary.
The guy ALWAYS spills the beans just in time for Fred Thompson to cut the red wire as the digital timer clicks down to 00:00:01.
What, do you live under a friggin’ ROCK? Get with the program, son!
How did we go from the “Greatest Generation” to these soft-bellied Izod-wearing fascists? And how great is that “Greatest Generation” if these are the ass-weasles that we’re left with?
Drag this torture-porn freak down to the nearest high school and have a 13-year-old tell him why we’re the greatest country in the world.
We are only better than the enemy when we’re better than the enemy, you sorry excuse for a human.
Good audio, Mike. Keep’em coming.
-BP
Does anybody realize that we wouldnt be in this situation that we are in now if Iraq and Saddam had just followed the UN sanctioned rules that were placed upon them after the First Gulf war. Plain and simple….follow the freaking rules and we will forgive you for your ILLEGAL invasion of Kuwait. Thats it nothing more nothing less, these are the agreed upon things that you must do, but no they just couldnt do it. Even after the WORLD told them for over ten years you better listen, we arent kidding, this time we are really serious, if you dont do it this time something is going to happen, do you hear me, Im serious, Im counting to 3 and then something bad will happen.
Yeah typical that liberals place all the blame on this administration, when it wasnt us who started this. You do what you got to do to get whatever information you can, you bend the rules without breaking them and if you do end up breaking them then TOUGH.